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Tuesday, October 26, 2021
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mrindian

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President - Starklite Cycle

A Trip down Memory Lane – Purchasing Antique Motorcycles

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A Trip down Memory Lane – Purchasing Antique Motorcycles

by Gary Stark

We collect antique motorcycles for many reasons. For some it’s considered a trip down Memory Lane as we now have the financial resources to pursue our dreams from our teen years or purchasing the bike we remember our father or grandfather used to have. Of course we tell our wives, “It’s really more of an investment than a motorcycle.” What you don’t tell them is that you’ve wanted or lusted after one for more than 30 years.

There are several routes to getting to your dream. You can buy one in good condition, at auction, on the Internet, magazines, restore a fixer-upper yourself, or pay an expert to restore one to your exact specifications. Whichever route you choose, make sure you don’t underestimate the cost to complete the project. Even the ones that appear to be in good condition on the auction block, or at the swap meet, can take several thousand dollars of work to make them dependable on the road.

Most times, buying a restored bike is often less expensive than purchasing a basket case and performing the restoration yourself. It is easy to put more money into the bike when you fix it up than if you bought it restored. In many cases, the previous owner has spent more money on his dream project than the bike is worth. This is especially true if it was restored by a professional.

If you decide to purchase a bike that you know very little about, it is often wise to garner some knowledge before making the investment plunge. If you currently own a post-war bike and decide to purchase a bike in the teen’s, 20’s, 30’s, 40’s or a different model than you currently own, make it a point to attend the next Antique Motorcycle Club of America, http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/ , event near your hometown. Even if it’s eight or more hours away, this investment will pay off over time. The AMCA is filled with members who are willing to share information on the bikes they own. Drill these current owners about parts availability, problems during the restoration, and drivability. The Internet has become a great source of knowledge. With our recently expanded club website at www.indian-motorcycles.com you have convenient resource to ask questions on models, share photos, and write blogs on your own restorations.

How much to spend on a model depends on several factors – 1. How popular the model is  2. quantity produced, and 3. Rideability. A good example is the 1940-42 four cylinder models. These are currently very popular, and were very low in production numbers. This model can command over $65,000 on the high end, and $30,000 for one needing restoration.

            While shopping for your dream motorcycle, you have several resources. Hemmings Motor News (www.hemmings.com; 800-227-4373 $29.00 for 12 issues. This 500 page monthly magazine has a limited “Cycle” classified section, while offering a literal bible of information on cars. Ebay (www.ebay.com) is quickly becoming a must see source of Indians for sale. Also our club website, and the Starklite website lists a section on bikes for sale. Be sure to visit when you are looking at prices, as some great deals have shown up recently. Caution: When confirming sales on the internet be careful that you are dealing with a reputable seller, scams are very common amongst internet sales. Either use a broker, or visit the bike yourself. Don’t forget your local newspaper classified section or Craigslist.org . We recently heard of a complete 1946 Chief sold in Southern California for $4,000, while the asking price was $6,000! So deals still can be found.

Another way to track that bike down is to visit an auction. Most auctions will list the bikes that will be available before the event. Get a list and if the bike you are interested in is listed, make a trek to attend. If you can’t attend you can usually register as a phone or Internet bidder, and bid on your dream vehicle. One of the most prominent Auctions takes place every January. Mark January on your calendar to Attend the Mecum Antique Motorcycle Auction in Las Vegas Nevada, at the new South Point Hotel & Casino. This event usually has a really good turnout of bikes, and bidders. They are estimating over 650 motorcycles will be auctioned. Auctions are also held in Sturgis, AMA Vintage M/C Days, and the Daytona Motorcycle meets.

Finding the great deal on a restored bike can be a great story around the campgrounds at night, but the bigger story is the satisfaction of bringing the dream bike back to life yourself.  Nothing can compare when you invest sweat equity to bring your project to life, but be prepared to have patience. It always takes longer than you originally anticipated.

            On the other hand, you may be long on cash and short on patience. If so there are multiple shops who specialize in motorcycle restorations. However, there is nothing cheap when going this route. If you start with a rust bucket bike and are looking for a 100pt restoration be prepared to spend $35,000 to $45,000, depending upon the model and how bad the bike was when you started.

            Most professional restoration shops charge $75 to $125 an hour to work on your bike. If you are looking for a nice rider bike restoration, figure on 300 hours of restoration work. If you are looking for that 100-point show bike add an additional 50-100 hours of labor for the detail work required to obtain 100 points.

            Remember you should always buy these bikes purely out of love, not as an investment. If you are looking for a return on your motorcycle investment, look for a good deal on a bike that’s already been restored rather than restoring one. Remember, the more professional the restoration, the higher the value when you get ready to sell it.

            If you are buying for investment purposes, get as much documentation as possible. This is especially required when you are looking for a rare 1952 or 1953 Chief model. When looking for one of these models you will start to find that there are more of them available than what the factory produced. Look for copies of vehicle registrations from the 50’s, 60’s, or 70’s as proof of the bikes year. During those years, the bikes were not garnering a premium. As with any business there are restorers who are not credible so do your research. Engine numbers and frame numbers can be easily tampered with.

            Despite the economy and roller coaster stock market, the demand for quality antique motorcycles remains high. During the past few years Car Collectors who are used to paying over $100,000 are now getting interested in the Antique Motorcycles. This is now driving the prices of our motorcycles to new never before seen highs.  Having your money invested in a hard asset that you can enjoy is appealing. Looking out to the future… well we can only look at past performance. In 1990, our newsletter had a 1952 Roadmaster restored by Starklite Cycle offered for $14,000. Today this bike would be worth over $40,000. In the same issue we advertised a 1953 Roadmaster by Ted Williams, 300 miles since restoration for $10,500-. Today the bike would easily top $40,000-.  Recent auction results show a strong up trend in pricing, look at these examples:  1934 Indian Sport Scout owned by Steve McQueen sold for $155,000-, and a 1937 Crocker sold for $245,000-. But remember, as the saying goes, past performance is no indication of future returns.

Source: A Trip down Memory Lane – Purchasing Antique Motorcycles – Starklite Indian Motorcycles

How to Identify Chief Rods

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Rebuilding Your Indian – How to Identify your Rods

by Gary Stark

When you start the rebuilding your powerplant, one of the first things you will want to look at will be your rods. Many people wonder what type, and how strong the rods are in their motor. First of all, let it be said that all Indian rods are strong and not prone to breakage. Indian had four basic sets of rods. Pre 1940, 1941-45 Military, 1946-1948, and finally 80ci rods. Before using any original rods, be sure to check for straightness and it is a good idea to have them magnafluxed to check for hidden cracks. If you are building an 80+ci motor we recommend the 41-45 rods. If you are building a stock 74ci motor, the original rods that came with your powerplant should be sufficient as long as you have checked them thoroughly.
Carefully look at the photos and you should be able to identify your rods:

Pre 1940 – Indians 3rd strongest rod. Characteristics: Wrist pin reinforcement, thin lower race section.

1941-45 Military: Perhaps Indian’s strongest rod. Characteristics: Reinforced wrist pin, thick lower race section.

1946-48: Indian’s weakest rod. Characteristics: No wrist pin reinforcement, thin lower race section.

80ci rods: 2nd strongest rod. Characteristics: No wrist pin reinforcement, thick lower race section.

If you have any questions on your rods please give us a call. If you have any hesitation on using your rods. Starklite Cycle manufactures some of the strongest rods available to use in your restoration.

You may also be interested in our tech article – How to install Indian Rod Races. Please be sure to look it up!

The 1953 Indian Motorcycle Advertisement

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This is a great video to watch how quickly they were able to build an engine and get it installed in the frame.

My personal favorite is when the mechanic picks the engine up and sets it down on another workbench. My back aches every time I see that scene.

Reflecting a bygone era: San Francisco International showcases early American motorcycles – The Moodie Davitt Report

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During this pandemic times, if you will be traveling and passing through San Francisco International. Stop by and visit the exhibition on Motorcycling
At a time when many flight restrictions are still in force, an exhibition in the airport’s International Terminal explores the history and the wonders of another mode of transport, motorcycling.

USA. An exhibition exploring the history and development of motorcycling has opened at San Francisco International Airport (SFO).

The SFO Museum exhibition, in the International Terminal Departures, started on 11 February and will run through 19 September 2021.
According to exhibition organisers, early American motorcycles “reflect a bygone era of mechanical innovation and bold industrial design”. They are prized by collectors around the world and displayed on vintage rides, endurance runs, and at special events.
The exhibition presents fourteen ‘exceptional’ examples made prior to 1916, along with a collection of rare engines and photographs from the pioneering era of motorcycling.
It follows the development of the motorcycle – “one of the earliest and most exciting applications of another new invention, the gasoline-powered internal combustion engine” – from the 1890s until 1915. The exhibition highlights the progress of motorcycle technology during that period and the evolvement of riding “from a novelty, to a hobby, sport and a reliable source of transportation”.

Augusta and Adeline Van Buren on Indian motorcycles in Tijuana, Mexico 1916 [Courtesy of Bob and Rhonda Van Buren and Cris Sommer Simmons, The American Motorcycle Girls]

Charles Henshaw and Oscar Hedstrom on a Hedstrom Motor-Pacer [Courtesy of Lyman & Merrie Wood Museum of Springfield History]

As the presentation points out, “motorcycling in the early twentieth century was always an adventure”.
“Road conditions were generally poor and hitting a pothole or other hazard on a motorcycle supported by a primitive, stiffly sprung suspension could easily throw a rider off the bike”.
It also underlines the need for “athletic ability” to start and ride these machines and that motorcyclists had to be mechanically minded to keep them in working condition.

The Flying Merkel twin-cylinder racer dates from 1912 [Courtesy of Dave Scoffone]

The 1914 Jefferson twin-cylinder racer (left) and the 1910 Harley-Davidson Model 6 both feature in the exhibition [ Courtesy of Dave Scoffone]

The SFO Museum,  a division of San Francisco International Airport, is a multifaceted programme with rotating exhibitions on a wide variety of subjects and interactive play areas featured throughout the terminals.
Its mission is to “delight, engage, and inspire a global audience”; to collect, preserve, interpret and share the history of commercial aviation, and to enrich the public experience at San Francisco International Airport.

Source: Reflecting a bygone era: San Francisco International showcases early American motorcycles – The Moodie Davitt Report

The Inside Story of the Indian Arrow

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By T.A. Hodgdon

SOME FOLKS collect stamps­, some go for photography in a big way, others spend all their spare time on the golf course-but my hobby is motorcycling. If I live to be a hun­dred I will never forget the thrill I had when, at the age of 16, I took delivery of my first brand new mo­torcycle. It was a Cleveland Light­weight, and it was so beautiful that I could hardly believe it was really mine.

It had fenders and frame finished in lustrous black enamel, gasoline tank and toolbox painted in gleam­ing blue, and the wheels were painted cream color! It had a small, single cylinder engine, 2 speeds, and a long lever beside the tank, to operate the clutch. The gold letters on the tank spelled out the name “Cleveland,” and I thought they, too, were beautiful. But that was as far as I saw.

My view, at 16 years of age, was limited to what I could see in the gleaming new motorcycle. Little did I realize that you cannot judge a motorcycle from its looks alone. Lit­tle did I dream of the vast amount of engineering and testing work which must be done at the factory before a new model is placed on the market.

In the years since that day when the new Cleveland dazzled me with its three-color paint job, I have owned many, many motorcycles of all sizes, makes and types, Some have been good, others excellent, and still others not so good. Why were some better than others? The answer is in the painstaking care put into engineer­ing and testing-before the models were ever placed on the market.

WE ARE TAKEN BEHIND THE SCENES ON THE 4th of July, this year, I was privileged to see, and ride, the new Indian Arrow, the single cylinder overhead valve, four-speed lightweight which is now being bought by riders all over the country, as fast as Indian can turn them off the production line of the new Indian factory. More than that I was privileged to have a full hour’s talk with G. Briggs Weaver, the designer of the Arrow, and William Bandlow, one of the testers who has pounded the new Arrow over thousands of miles of road tests.

In that interview my eyes were opened to many interesting facts which I had not realized-and which I know will be of intense interest to all motorcycle enthusiasts. Here, you may read some of my questions and Mr. Weaver’s answers.

As you read the answers, keep in mind that Mr.. Weaver is probably the smartest motorcycle designer in the world today. He is a former In­dianapolis Racing Car designer, was the creator of the Indian Sport Scout which has blazed such a trail of vic­tories in major competitive events over the past 10 years, designer of the Indian Shaft Drive Military mo­torcycle, and more recently designer of the new Indian Scout Vertical twin.

AT LAST WE LEARN HOW A NEW MOTORCYCLE IS BORN

SITTING in Mr. Weaver’s study, facing him and Bill Bandlow, a test rider, we asked

Q: “How long ago was design work started on this new Indian Arrow which is now sitting out here in the yard ready for me to ride?”

ANS: “We started on it four years ago, after the Management and Sales Department outlined what was want­ed. We have worked four years to perfect it-to make absolutely cer­tain, by all known engineering and testing means-that it is by far the best and most serviceable lightweight motorcycle that has ever been pro­duced.

“We know that some motorcycle designs have been produced and re­leased to the public in as little time as a year or two, but we at Indian do not believe in that “rush it through” policy. Time, testing, more engi­neering, more testing, and consist­ent, painstaking follow through is the only policy upon which we work. It has to be right in all respects before we O. K. it for production.”

Q: “What was the basic idea­ … what did you set out to design in the new Arrow Single?”

ANS: “We set out to produce a lightweight motorcycle that would weigh not over 250 lbs.-would be capable of 60 miles per hour top speed, have excellent acceleration, and be extremely durable-able to average road speeds on a trip as good as other road traffic, including larger motorcycles and cars. In short-a lightweight that was tough in ability to take punishment of sustained high speeds-not a `featherweight’ for short trips-but a real serviceable lightweight motorcycle.”

Q: “Do you feel that you have achieved it?”

ANS: “We know that we have.”

Q: “How can you be sure?”

ANS: “Our extensive program of testing, year after year under my close personal observation, each day over those years, has enabled us to eliminate, one after another any mi­nor points which could give trouble, until we have a very sound, reliable motorcycle, which our young, strong, test riders are unable to break down, even when they deliberately set out to “ride it to destruction.”

Q:          “How was the road test pro­gram conducted?”

ANS: “Well, our 75,000 miles of road testing on this new design were conducted in two stages. We started by designing and constructing two pilot models. These were put on the road three years ago, and sent out on the road in the hands of testers who were ordered to report every 6 or 8 hours, on general handling, charac­teristics, riding qualities, arrange­ment of controls, operation of clutch, gearbox, brakes, and all other details in the motorcycle.

“Each item was carefully watched, findings noted, and careful records made. Occasional modifications were made. Each small improvement made the motorcycle better, and prepared it for the day we would start the second stage of road testing.”

Q: “What was the second stage of road testing ?”

ANS:     “I will let Bill Bandlow, who did a great deal of that road testing, answer that one.”

BILL, who has been a motorcycle rider for fifteen years, and who was a Flight Instructor in Texas for three years during the war, grinned and said, “When the day came that the models were ready for the acid test, my boss, Clarence Bergsma, head of the Testing Department, told us to take those motorcycles out, pile up the mileage, day after day, seek out the worst roads we could find-pound the daylights out of ’em-in fact, beat ’em up. We did, for weeks on end. Most of us on the testing end had been riding big Chiefs and Sport Scouts, and we had our eyes opened to what a lightweight motorcycle really can do.

“We were told to ride these models just as fast as we could hour after hour, and that is what we did. We soon, changed our ideas-found this new lightweight could maintain al­most as high road speeds as even a big Chief with an engine several times as big! Now I don’t mean it’s as fast on the straightaway-but be­cause of its lighter weight and abil­ity to hold the road-it can make wonderful time on the curved and winding roads. I think Mr. Weaver can give you an example of what I mean.”

“Yes,” said Mr. Weaver, “we had a good example a few weeks ago. A young man left Springfield on the Arrow, headed for the Laconia Races.    He made the 160 miles in 31/2 hours over exceedingly twisting, tor­tuous roads, at average speed of close to 45 miles per hour-and you wouldn’t make that trip in a car in any better time than that.”

“Yes,” cut in Bandlow, the tester “-and you probably wouldn’t make it any faster on a big `61′ or `74’­you wouldn’t go `boiling’ into those winding roads on a big, heavy ma­chine, as fast as you could on the Arrow, because of the ease of han­dling on the turns.”

Q: “Mr. Weaver, tell me of a spe­cific instance of a high speed test with the new model.”

ANS: “First of all-our own test­ers have never been able to break one up-over thousands of miles of speed. We took one of the new models to a place where there is no speed limit-­the famous Harrisburg Turnpike, the super speed highway that runs across Pennsylvania. We put a test­er on it-told him to turn it on-full speed, and hold it on full throttle for the entire 156 mile run, up long hills and down long hills-a supreme test of any engine. Only in the tunnels did he ease off on the throttle. The new model took the full throttle beat­ing for the 156 miles without a mur­mur. There wasn’t even an oil leak showing, and she idled like a kitten after 156 miles on wide open throt­tle!”

Q: “After you were satisfied with the pilot models, what was the next step?”

ANS: “The pilot models were now put aside, and we built several pro­totypes of production models, that is, we incorporated all the improvements the pilot models had shown neces­sary. These models were duplicates of the motorcycles later to be put into production. We now started all over again with the heavy road testing program-told the testers to take the prototype models out and beat ’em up -and this continued for months, un­til we were satisfied the models to be put into production were perfect.”

Q: “Now, gentlemen, how do you account for this extreme durability from a motorcycle of only performance inches piston displacement, and weighing only 250 pounds?”

ANS: “From a durability angle we put only the best of materials and most modern design into the new Arrow-and that goes for the new Vertical Twin Scout as well. For in­stance the cylinder is of iron, with aluminum alloy finning cast onto the process developed during the war for air cooled engines. A very high percentage of the working parts throughout the whole motorcycle are of highest grade alloy steels-parts which in most motorcycles would be made of less expensive material. We further added strength and saved weight by using die castings wher­ever possible.            We have spared no expense in design, testing, or in tool­ing, to make the new models extreme­ly durable and reliable no matter how the rider flogs the machine.”

Then Bill Bandlow added, in typi­cal tester’s jargon, “Ted, you can take this Arrow out on the road, crack the whip, dig in the spurs, tuck in your elbows-and roll ‘er up to maximum “revs” for hours at a time and you can’t hurt it.”

MR. WEAVER then continued: “To get excellent acceleration and a good turn of high speed, we have both an engine and transmission that reduce friction to the lowest possible degree. The whole mecha­nism runs free and easily, largely on ball or roller bearings. Proper lu­brication of each bearing has been most carefully worked out. For in­stance, the connecting rod lower end bearing receives fresh oil under 50 pounds pressure from the instant the engine is started.

“Having thus reduced friction to a minimum, the power output can be utilized for the acceleration and speed the rider wants, rather than in over­coming the friction that is found in less carefully engineered motorcy­cles. That is a long story-and there is a great deal in it. More could be told about it if we had the space.

“The engine, of 13 cubic inches piston displacement, is of overhead valve design which gives extremely snappy performance. Clutch is cork faced, with eight friction surfaces; the transmission has four speeds, runs on ball and roller bearings; the wheels are on roller and ball bearings. As a result of this expensive con­struction, we are positive this motor­cycle will surpass in performance anything of its size, as well as many motorcycles having considerably more power.”

Q: “All the experienced riders who have ridden the Arrow tell me it holds the road exceptionally well feels very steady-has no bounce or weaving, on any road, at any speed. How did you accomplish this?”

ANS: “I will be frank-we started by designing into the motorcycle all the knowledge of road-holding we have gained in our many years of racing success. While this is no rac­ing motorcycle, it is a well known fact that the race course has been the proving ground for outstanding au­tomotive developments.”

WE TRY THE ARROW ON THE ROAD AFTER thanking Mr. Weaver for his courtesies and for a mighty interesting hour, we started out to ride this- wonderful new motorcycle -our head filled with a new concep­tion of the vast amount of engineer­ing and test work that made it pos­sible.

The road holding is exceptionally good, and we found it hard to believe we were on a lightweight: The en­gine is a sweet running mechanism that seems to be happy in any of the four gears, even on a wide open throt­tle in second or third. .

On the model we rode, vibration at any speed is positively not there she is smooth as glass from zero to 63 miles per hour, the top speed we hit. We like the gear ratios, which are 17 to one in low, 11.69 to one in second, 7.4 in third and 6.12 to one in fourth.

EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE AFTER checking the speedometer with one we knew to be right on the button, we made tests in all four speeds-found these results: In low gear, 30 miles per hour. In second gear 41 miles per hour. In third 55, and in fourth, 63 miles per hour, and if we had let ‘er roll a bit farther think she would have touched 65. The new. Indian Arrow is a thor­oughbred-worthy of its long line of illustrious ancestors, the product of an excellent modern engineering and test-program, covering four years. THE END

Cylinder Bore Refinishing

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This image has an empty alt attribute; its file name is cross-hatch.png
Cross Hatch Angles

Cylinder bore refinishing is extremely important in the engine rebuild process. There are some basic rules and facts which will prevent common problems incurred when deglazing or refinishing cylinders.

CROSS HATCH ANGLES

The correct angle for cross hatch lines to intersect is approximately 45°. Too steep an angle promotes oil migration down the cylinder resulting in a thin oil film which can cause ring and cylinder scuffing.
Too flat a cross hatch angle can hold excess oil which conversely causes thicker oil films
which the piston rings will ride up on or hydroplane. Excessive oil consumption will result.
The diagrams will illustrate cross hatch angles.

HONING METHODS

Two basic systems are used to refinish cylinder wall either rigid stones or a flexible brush.
Correct cylinder finishes can be achieved with either system if used correctly. In all cases the manufacturers instructions must be followed with respect to :

  1. Stone grit
  2. Honing oil
  3. Stone pressure (Automatic equipment)
    The vertical speed of the brush or hone in the cylinder is what causes the cross hatch angle on the surface of the cylinder wall Too slow a vertical speed causes too flat an angle while too rapid up and down motion of the hone or brush causes too steep an intersecting angle. In the case of hand honing it will be necessary for the operator to experiment to learn the proper up and down movement in relation to the rotating speed of the one to produce proper cross hatch angle.

CYLINDER ROUGHNESS

Substantial controversy exists on the correct cylinder roughness for proper seating of piston rings whether chrome moly or plain cast iron It has been our experience that the use of 220/280 grit stones and achieving proper cross hatch angle produces a finish compatible to all three types of the above rings

CYLINDER CLEANING

The single most critical factor of any cylinder refinishing job is the cleaning of that cylinder after the honing operation
It can be stated pistons rings and cylinder bores will forgive slight variations in roughness cross hatch angle etc. No engine component will tolerate dirt!
Honing cylinders leaves two types of “dirt” on the cylinder wall, honing stone residue and cast iron dust If not removed before the engine is reassembled the worlds finest lapping compound is waiting to destroy all the hard work of assembly the instant the engine is started.
Proper cylinder cleaning consists of a thorough scrubbing of the block with hot soapy water taking care to clean the surface under the cylinder facing the crankcase Rinse with hot water dry and lightly oil to prevent rust
For detailed honing questions it is wise to contact the manufacturer of your specific equipment They are experts in metal finishing and of course completely understand their own equipment
In general if the foregoing practices are used excellent engine performance will result

Carburetor Information / Identification

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Carburetor Model Identification & Specs for American Motorcycles

Carburetor Model Identification & Specs for American Motorcycles

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This resource is  under development, ALL additions and corrections WELCOME, in fact its a MUST!!.
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Carbs used on competitor models are shown incase you come across one at a swap meet or auction. You can then compare nozzle, venturi, and hole sizes against the original specs for your Indian carb. This page is not (yet) intended as a rebuild or tuning resource – just serves as an identification and comparison guide. It mainly came about with me having to identify over thirty carbs in my parts pool  – hopefully it will help others too. Schebler Carburetors were manufactured in Indianapolis, Indiana, patent applied by the Wheeler-Schebler Company in Oct 1902.Notes: Drill size numbers on two hole idle (Idle2) systems are annotated (fl)=flange (in)=intake, one hole idle (idel1) on the Deluxe models are plug number sizes.
 Schebler Models G, H, C, AM  – Carb ID numbers (ID #) are stamped on the upper body casting.
amx12a
amx13_small

List excludes AMX 6 and AMX13 as used on some Indian racing specials.
<Above Left
is picture of a rare AMX12 racing carb,, Above Right, a rarer AMX13
For H Series Only:  The sNozzle column is the size of number drill used for cleaning spray nozzle, TheaValve column is used for size of leather air valve disc. (see photo of operation for a Model H)

Schebler Model GID #Size”Venturi “aValveIdle2 (fl)Idle2 (in)sNozzle
Make, model,yearFlange Type: 2 point flange and clamp type (Indian)
Harley Davidson
1926-28 Single
GX-113/4n/a#71#50n/a
Indian Prince
1926 21″
GX-213/4n/a#71#50n/a
Cleveland
1926
GX-3111/16n/a#71#50n/a
Harley Davidson
1926-28 OHV 1cyl
GX-411-1 1/16n/a#71#50n/a
Indian Prince
1926 Sport
GX-517/8n/a#71#50n/a
Cleveland
1926-27
GX-619/16n/a#71#50n/a
Cleveland
1926 Four 45″
GX-7111/16n/a#71#50n/a
Indian Prince
1927 21″
GX-8115/16n/a#71#50n/a
Harley Davidson
1927-28 Single
GX-9111/16n/a#71#50n/a
Indian Prince
1928 21″
GX-1117/8n/a#71#50n/a
        
Schebler Model HFlange Type:  3 point flange, clamp type, leather airvalve disc
For more info http://home.t-online.de/home/pravg/schebler.htm
Indian Twin 5hp
1907-08 Diamond
HX-263/4n/a1n/an/a??
Indian Twin 5hp
1909-11, 1915
HX-763/4n/a1n/an/a#55
Indian Single 4hp
1912-1915
HX-843/4n/a1n/an/a#55
Harley Davidson
1915-17 Single
HX-941n/a1n/an/a#55
Excelsior
1915-16 Twin
HX-1041n/a1 3/8n/an/a#55
Indian Twin 7hp
1912-1915
HX-1211n/a1 1/8n/an/a#51
Excelsior
1916-18 BigValve
HX-122n/an/an/a#53
Reading Standard
1916-24
HX-1251n/a1n/an/a#53
Henderson J & H
1917-19 Four
HX-1301n/a1 1/8n/an/a#54
Excelsior
1917-19 Twin
HX-1381n/a1 1/8n/an/a#51
Indian PowerPlus
1920-24 72ci BV
HX-1471n/a1 1/8n/an/a#51
Indian PowerPlus
1916-1919 61ci
HX-1531n/a1 1/8n/an/a#51
Harley Davidson
1920-24 Sport
1919 opposed 2cy
HX-1563/4n/a1n/an/a#57
Reading Standard
1917
HX-158     ??
Indian Scout
1920-1923
HX-1593/4n/a1n/an/a#51
Harley Davidson
1915-24 61″
HX-1601n/a1 1/8n/an/a#55
Excelsior
1917-25 61″
HX-1621n/a1 1/8n/an/a#51
Reading Standard
1921-24
HX-164n/an/an/a#53
Excelsior
1921-25 72″
HX-167n/an/an/a#53
??HX-175 n/a??n/an/a??
Indian Chief
1922-25 61″&74″
HX-180n/an/an/a#55
Harley Davidson
1921-25 74
HX-181n/an/an/a#50
Indian,P+,Std,Chief
1920-25 61,72,74″
HX-182n/an/an/a#51
Ace
1920-25 Four
HX-1831n/a1 1/8n/an/a#51
Indian Prince
1924-1925
HX-1843/4n/a1 1/8n/an/a#55
Indian Scout
1924-1925
HX-1891n/a1 1/8n/an/a#55
Indian Scout
1926-?
HX-1903/4n/a1n/an/a#55

Schebler Deluxe Models A, B, (C with and without air horn) Carb ID numbers are stamped on body casting
Notes:
The style of carb connection for the following carbs are all 3 point flange.
Most of these have 1/4″ gas nipples, some are 3/16. Throttle discs are numbered for idle chamfer degree,
be aware of this if swapping discs between carbs.

Schebler Deluxe
Make,model,year
ID #Size “Venturi  “Idle1Idle2 (fl)Idle2 (in)Air BleedEquiv
Excelsior
1912-25 74″
1926, 45″ Sport
DLX-815/16
(DL-13)
#4….….….DLX-27
Reading Standard
1921-1925 72″
DLX-915/16
(DL-13)
#4….….#55 
Indian Scout
1920-1926 37″
DLX-1013/4
(DL -33)
….#55#55#52DLX-50
Indian PowerPlus
1916-1919 61″
DLX-1117/8
(DL-15)
….#65#50#55 
Harley Davidson
1915-24 61″
DLX-1217/8
(DL-15)
….#71#50#55 
Excelsior
1917-25 61″
1926-27 45″
DLX-1317/8
(DL-15)
….#71#55#52DLX-27
Ace
1920-25 Four ’26?
DLX-1613/4
(DL-33)
 #71#55#55DLX-52
Harley Davidson
1921-24 74″
DLX-2015/16
(DL-13)
#5….….#55 
Indian Pplus/Chief
1920-24 72″ PPlus
1922-26 74″ Chief
DLX-2115/16#5….….#55DLX-14
Harley Davidson
1924-26 74″Racing
DLX-231 1/16
(DL-29A)
#5….….#55 
Indian
Daytona Racing
DLX-241 1/16
(DL-29A)
#5….….#55 
Ace
1926 Four
DLX-2513/4
(DL-33)
….#71#50#55DLX-52
Indian Chief
1920-1925 61″
DLX-267/8
(DL-15)
#5….….#55DLX-4
Excelsior
1925-28 45″
DLX-27113/16
(DL-13)
….#71#55#52 
Indian Big Chief
1927-29 74″
DLX-3615/16
(DL-13)
….#55#55….DLX-37
Harley Davidson
1927 74″
DLX-387/8
(DL-14)
….#65#50…. 
Indian Scout
1927 45″
DLX-40113/16
(DL-40)
….#55#50#52DLX-50
Excelsior
1925-28 45″ Sport
DLX-4115/16
(DL-13)
….#65#50…. 
Harley Davidson
1928 74″
DLX-457/8
(DL-14)
….#65#50…. 
Harley Davidson
1928 74″ Police
DLX-481 1/16
(DL-29)
….#65#50…. 
Indian Scout
1928 37″ Scout
1928 37″ 101
DLX-50113/16
(DL-40)
….#55#55#52DLX-63
Indian 101 Scout
1928 45″
DLX-5113/4
(DL-33)
….#55#50#52DLX-64
Indian Ace
1928 Four
DLX-5213/4
(DL-33)
….#71#55#55 
Harley Davidson
1928 74″ Racing
DLX-531 1/16
(DL-29A)
….#65#50…. 
Cleveland
1928 Four 61″
DLX-5413/4
(DL-33)
….#71#58#55 
Indian 101 Scout
1929-30 37″ 101
DLX-63113/16
(DL-40)
….#55#55#52DLX-50
Indian 101 Scout
1929-30 45″ 101
DLX-6413/4
(DL-33)
….#55#55#52DLX-51
Indian Four
1929 Four
DLX-6513/4
(DL-33)
….    
Indian Four
1930-32 Four
DLX-7713/4     
Indian Scout Pony
1932 30.50″
DLX-7813/4….   DLX-78A?
Indian Scout, 101
1931-34 45″
DLX-7917/8     
Indian Chief
1930-32 74″
DLX-8115/16     
Harley Davidson?DLX-88  ….   ??
Indian Four
1932-34 Four
DLX-97115/16….   ??
Indian Scout Pony
1933-35 30.50″
DLX-9813/4….   ??
Indian Std Scout
1933-34 45″
DLX-991?15/16….   ??
Indian Chief
1933-34 74″
DLX-10015/16….   ??
Indian MotoPlane
1933 45″
DLX-1023/4?….   ??
Indian Std/SScout
1934-37 45″,DT
DLX-1077/8….   ??
Indian Chief
1935-39 74″
DLX-10815/16….   ??
Indian Scout/Chief
1935-39 ‘Y’ S/Scout
1939 74″
DLX-1103/4?….   ??
Indian Four
1935 Four
DLX-1117/8?….   ??
Indian Scout Pony
1936-39 30.50″Jr.
DLX-11213/4….   ??
Indian Four
1938-39 Four
DLX-1137/8….   ??
Indian ThirtyFifty
1940 30.50″
DLX-12213/4….   ??
Indian Four
1940 Four
DLX-12415/16?….   ??
Indian S/Scout
1940 +Bonneville
DLX-1287/8….   ??
Indian Chief
1940 74″
DLX-13015/16….   ??

Linkert  3 Bolt Pattern Only
Check Victory Library for more Linkert documentation.
Quick ID, All  1940 carbs bear the inscription “Langsenkamp-Linkert Carburetor Co….” 1941 and later bear the inscription  “L & L Manufacturing Co…”

You will note  some correlation between model numbers and years in the numbering sequence. (see our serial database decoding table)

Linkert Make, Model, YearsID #Size “Venturi, “
Indian Chief Seventy Four
1941-1944 (M341-M344)
1946-1948 (M346-M348)
M341,M342, M343
M344, M346, M347
M348
1¼”1-1/16″ or 1-1/8″
Indian Fours
1941-1942 (M441-M442)

M441, M442
1¼”1-1/16″
Indian Junior Scouts
‘Thirty Fifty’ 1941-1942

M541, M542
1″13/16″
Indian Sports Scouts
45″  Sports Scout 1941-1942
45″ Daytona Big Base 1948

M641,M642
M648
1¼”
1¼”
1-1/16″
1-1/8″
Indian Military Scout 741 GDA
30.50″ 1941-1943

M741
1″3/4″
Indian Military 841 HDA
45″ Opposed Twin 1941
(twin carburetors, L & R)

M841L, M841R
1″13/16″
Indian Chief 80″
1950-1953
(if not fitted with Amal,Police)

M350, M351,
M352
1¼”1-1/8″
Harley
1937-1941 UL, ULH
1942-1948 UL, ULH
1937-1941 UL, ULH (opt)

M51
M51F
M51L
1¼”
1¼”
1¼”
1/1/16″
1⅛”
1⅛”
HarleyM211¼” 
Harley
1941-47 Knuckle, 48 Pan
M35T  
Harley
1937-1952
45″ WL WLA WLC
M881¼”15/16
Harley
1936-39 EL Knuckle
M5, M5F1¼”1/1/16″
Harley
1949-1958 W and Servi-car
M18  
Harley
1933 VLD, 34-36 V,VL,VLD
1937-39 WL, WLD
M2 1/1/16″
L&L Beck Aftermarket Replacement CarbsThese carbs were aftermarket Linkerts remanufactured by Beck. As you can see left, there was a small INDIAN stamped under or above the model number.
1939-1942 ChiefsM61¼” 
1931-1938 ChiefsM6A1¼” 
1931-1938 Chiefs (Bonne)M6B1¼” 
1939-1942 Chiefs  (Bonne)M6BA1¼” 
1943-1947 ChiefsM6AP (strainer)1¼” 
Harley 1930-1936M6VL1¼” 
1934-1938 Sport ScoutsM6S1¼” 
1934-1938 Sport ScoutsM6SA1¼” 
1932-1943 30.40 Jr.Scouts, AllM7 , M7SA?1 
Indian Fours, All?M81 

Tillotson
The Tillotson Mfg Co. Toledo Ohio.
<Left  MS-34A

TillotsonID #   
Indian Scout
1929-30 37″ 101
1933 Scout Pony
MS-33A???
Indian Scout
1929-30 45″ 101
MS-34A???

Amal
British designed and built Type 6 (early)  Amal Carburetors where used on some Chiefs ’52-53 (Police excluded),
Vertical Scouts and Warriors from 1949 to 51 (I think!). Note the 3 bolt linkert manifold to 2 bolt amal adaptor.

From the late 40’s through the early 70’s and beyond most all British, American, and European carburetors have been of similar types. Whether its an early Amal Type 6, or a Linkert, or a late Amal concentric, they all function basically the same. The major difference between American carburetors and those on British and European bikes, is that for the most part American carburetors have used a butterfly valve rather than a slide/needle to meter the air/fuel above idle.

Amal – Type 6, Model 29ID #
Indian Arrow
1949-1950
Models 149,150
Amal
27?XX
Indian Scout
1949
Models 249, 250
Amal 275XX
Indian Warrior /Warrior TT
1950- 1951
Model ?
Amal 276ES
Indian Chief
1952-1953
 Models 352 & 353
Amal 289R
 

Zenith

At this time I have very little knowledge on the Zeniths. I believe they were used on some 36/37 fours, i.e.. the upside down fours, particularly the sports four (dual carb). please contribute if you can.

Hedstrom <under development>This is a variation (perhaps racing?) of the Hedstrom Hendee carbs as used in the early Indians

Marvel
Help!


Revision History

25/02/06added photos on AMX12, Tillotson MS34A, Marvel and Beck carbs
25/09/04minor corrections to Std Scout and ‘Y’ Scout (Schebler Deluxe)
24/07/03Added more M series Harley carbs (3 bolt only), plus the Beck L&L aftermarket replacement
26/01/03More work on the Amal Carburetor
06/17/02Finally got around to doing something on Linkerts, thanks to Victory Library for their help
10/24/01Added Zenith info (for what its worth!
07/02/01Draft release, Schebler carbs completed, do you have more data to offer?
07/10/01changes to the 101 scout’s, also added Tillotsons, thanks to Erv Moller.

(99.56.43.103)

Indian celebrates 100 years of the Chief with new models – Motorcycle News

1

Indian motorcycle celebrates the Chief nameplate’s 100th anniversary with a modernized trio of new models that pay homage to the past, while embracing the future.

100 years ago in 1921, Indian Motorcycle unveiled the iconic Indian Chief, one of the Springfield firm’s most successful models, already sporting a V-twin engine at the time. Since then, the Chief remains to be a historic and influential motorcycle, both for Indian and cruisers in general.

   Now, in celebration of 100 years, America’s First Motorcycle Company is unleashing three new, totally reimagined Indian Chief models. Combining iconic, American V-twin style with modern performance and technology, Indian Motorcycle is giving the new Chief series a simplistic and mechanical aesthetic that pays homage to the glory days of American motorcycling, while still integrating the latest technology.

For the Chief’s 100th birthday, Indian Motorcycle will be offering it in 3 new variants. All based these are based on timeless, simplistic steel-tube frame and powered by Indian Motorcycle’s powerful 1890cc V-twin Thunderstroke motor that produces 162 Nm of torque. The new Indian Chief Dark Horse, Indian Chief Bobber Dark Horse and Indian Super Chief Limited offer three unique takes on the classic American V-twin, each appealing to a slightly different rider.

Chief Dark Horse

The Indian Chief Dark Horse features stripped-down styling highlighted by drag handlebars, 19-inch cast wheels, mid-mount foot controls, a slim headlight bucket and a solo bobber seat. The Chief Dark Horse is offered in Black Smoke, Alumina Jade Smoke and Stealth Gray.

Chief Bobber Dark Horse

In the Chief Bobber Dark Horse, mini-ape hanger handlebars paired with forward foot controls provide a more upright and commanding riding position. This model sits on 16-inch (40.6 cm) wire wheels, adds fork and shock covers, and features a large headlight bucket wrapped in a nacelle. The Chief Bobber Dark Horse is available in Black Smoke, Titanium Smoke, and Sagebrush Smoke.

Super Chief Limited

Designed for comfort, the Super Chief Limited stands apart with a quick-release windscreen, black leather saddlebags, touring seat with passenger pad, floorboards and traditional cruiser handlebars. The Super Chief Limited features 16-inch (40.6 cm) wire wheels, large headlight bucket with nacelle, fork covers, and a full chrome exhaust that delivers a premium fit and finish. The Super Chief Limited is available in Black Metallic, Blue Slate Metallic, and Maroon Metallic.

To maintain the classic look, Indian has fitted these models with a multi-function LCD dial. It can show vital info in the classic speedometer style or be customized to show alternate views and information more pertinent to the rider. This is thanks to integrated functions like satellite navigation and several other accessible functions. These can easily be adjusted thanks to touch controls, inspired by a smart phone, on the border of the dial. Accessories Like any American cruiser motorcycle, Indian Chief riders will have access to over 70 accessories, including parts specifically designed for Chief models, as well as several existing pieces available for Scout and Thunderstroke models. Indian Motorcycle’s accessory line has been designed to enhance performance, personalized style and add rider comfort. For more info, visit www.indianmotorcycle.com. Source: Indian celebrates 100 years of the Chief with new models – Motorcycle News